Welcome to the latest episode of the podcast where we explore the struggles men face when they try to do everything themselves. Lone-wolfing can be a slippery slope leading to personal and relational struggles that men may not even be aware of.
In this episode, Andy sits down with Men's Work Facilitator & Coach David Millar to discuss the challenges men face and how they can create real change in their lives. Listen as they delve deep into the question of how men can improve their well-being, challenge themselves, heal, transform and grow without feeling weak.
Masculinity can feel like a poisoned chalice in today's society, but with the right tools and guidance, men can overcome the negative habits that hold them back. Join us for a powerful and moving conversation about what it is to be a father, son, and husband, and how to become the man you want to be.
Don't miss this thought-provoking episode of our podcast! A must-listen for men.
Mantra Men's Work Events:
Men's Council Dundee - 23rd April 2023
Men's Weekend Retreat - May 12-14, 2023
Details - https://www.mantramenswork.com/
David Millar:
https://www.instagram.com/davidrossmillar/
https://www.instagram.com/mantramenswork/
The book David mentions is The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom by Don Miguel Ruiz
Welcome to the latest episode of the podcast where we explore the struggles men face when they try to do everything themselves. Lone-wolfing can be a slippery slope leading to personal and relational struggles that men may not even be aware of.
In this episode, Andy sits down with Men's Work Facilitator & Coach David Millar to discuss the challenges men face and how they can create real change in their lives. Listen as they delve deep into the question of how men can improve their well-being, challenge themselves, heal, transform and grow without feeling weak.
Masculinity can feel like a poisoned chalice in today's society, but with the right tools and guidance, men can overcome the negative habits that hold them back. Join us for a powerful and moving conversation about what it is to be a father, son, and husband, and how to become the man you want to be.
Don't miss this thought-provoking episode of our podcast! A must-listen for men.
Mantra Men's Work Events:
Men's Council Dundee - 23rd April 2023
Men's Weekend Retreat - May 12-14, 2023
Details - https://www.mantramenswork.com/
David Millar:
https://www.instagram.com/davidrossmillar/
https://www.instagram.com/mantramenswork/
The book David mentions is The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom by Don Miguel Ruiz
00:03.32
andyjnathan
So welcome to episode 8 of the podcast and we've got another guest episode this time David Miller David um started mantra men's work to give men the direct support and wider community that he needed when he was suffering with. Depression and was close to taking his own life more specifically David is a transformational coach a men's work facilitator and having been to one of David's eventss recently and edinmer I have to say is absolutely brilliant at what he does really phenomenal facilitator. Ah, motivator and leader and what David does through the men's work facilitation needs. He provides men opportunities through coaching courses and retreats to go within to realize their full potential and through doing that remove the barriers and beliefs that hold them back from thriving in. Every area of their lives David Supports men who want to create real change in their lives improve their wellbeing challenge themselves heal transform and grow and with you in the driver's seat David. Able to help you reconnect with your authenticity to find more passion purpose and potential so you can show up at your best and if you're interested in finding out more about David already you could go to mantra menswork.com.
01:31.71
andyjnathan
But we're going to have this amazing conversation and there are a couple of opportunities where you can do in-person work with David in Scotland I would highly recommend the journey if you're not in Scotland so David welcome thanks for being here.
01:43.85
David Millar
Thank you so much for having me Andy this is lovely. Thank you for that introduction too.
01:48.54
andyjnathan
You're so welcome. So what you up to at the moment. Why don't you just tell everyone what is going on for you in terms of your community and what you're working with at the moment.
01:59.85
David Millar
So with mantra men's work. We are and delivering and offering a number of retreats right now and the community is really growing I think you know Scotland has been a little bit behind the curve in terms of men stepping into therapeutic spaces and really embracing. That way of life or that healing modality and it's starting to grow now I think men are men are really realizing in Scotland that you know what I say the retreats is we are the medicine for each other and so for so long we have been suffering in silence and I think this community.
02:28.95
andyjnathan
Yeah.
02:38.46
David Millar
This sense of community that we've long forgotten as men is really coming back and I'm absolutely thrilled by it.
02:44.26
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah, that what you were saying there with the medicine that we need that takes me right back to that space. There's this beautiful venue in Edinburgh called Summerhall and had like frescoes on the ceiling. It was a big domed kind of building and. The work that took place although I've done many of those exercises I've never done it with just men and some of the exercises that we did I'd never I'd never done before and to see the way that you are able to.
03:11.80
David Millar
Um.
03:19.43
andyjnathan
To connect to something. It felt almost primal I'm still fine still finding my way in this in this world myself particularly in Scotland um, but it for me, it felt like it was waking up something in me that I hadn't really connected with even.
03:23.40
David Millar
A.
03:38.86
andyjnathan
You know going but the listeners know that I went to. We don't know I did I did did the dip in the seat on Easter Sunday and and that was that was so powerful and you know I got to do that through meeting people at David's events but there is something.
03:41.34
David Millar
I yes.
03:55.65
andyjnathan
I Don't maybe you could put words to what this thing is if you're understanding what I'm talking about this thing that awakens in us in the company of men. You know what? what is that for you because.
03:59.50
David Millar
Yeah, this this is it's ah it's I mean it's a remembering of an ancient technology of men's council so us getting back to what it used to be like as men. Before the industrial revolution before things changed before the world Changed. We used to have community as men and council with other men where we would Meet. We would strategize we would learn and grow together. We would hold space for each other. We would witness live conflict resolution. And emotional release and we would have a group of elders around us like shepherding us through this process and we would learn from our fathers. Our grandfathers our Uncles our brothers our sons like all of these people. All these men would be together and other men in the community as Well. So when we get into that space. What I believe is happening and it. It can be seen as Woooo. There's elements of it that are but there's elements of it that are really tangible and really obvious in this piece as well. But the woooo side of it is that I think there might be something connected to the vibration in that space like the the.
04:59.70
andyjnathan
Yeah.
05:12.43
David Millar
Lineage The the ancient element of what that is when men gather with intention and attention on each other and when we when we tap into that you know there's you know some people believe I believe that there's like a collective consciousness that we can kind of tap into.
05:19.77
andyjnathan
Um, yeah.
05:30.21
andyjnathan
Yeah, absolutely.
05:31.17
David Millar
You know, however much you believe that or not I think there's there's a vibration within that space when we gather as men with that intention that's been there forever. It's been done for Eons Millennia and when we start to recreate it. We. Tap into what's always been there. What's always been available to us. But we've just been too blind to into isolated to lone wolf to to really step into that space and when we hold it and when we witness each other fully. We're starting to remember oh this is what this is supposed to be like. And I really feel I really feel. There's something that's the primal sense. That's the primal sense. It's coming back when we when we drop the guards when we you know leave the societal programming at the door and we just be.
06:08.68
andyjnathan
Yeah.
06:21.77
David Millar
Just let ourselves open up into that space and just be real and honest and authentic at that moment and share what's live with us right there and then rather than trying to perform so you know I said in the event as well and I say it all the time. It's about presence over performance being fully present at the moment with yourself and with other men. Rather than trying to perform or compete in any way I think it's really healthy.
06:48.97
andyjnathan
I Love that I'm just kind of sitting with there's there is ancient wisdom in that how I mean how did you? How did you connect to this like what was your what was your path to to connecting to this?
06:50.84
David Millar
And.
06:58.47
David Millar
Um, yeah.
07:08.64
David Millar
I think it's a sense is it's something I've always had with me I've always been this way. Um, I grew up in the highlands of Scotland and it's not you know, typically where men are vulnerable. It's not a space where men are vulnerable in the highlands.
07:22.59
David Millar
I've always been this way where I wanted to get deeper to be in touch with feelings like a heart on my sleeve is what it was always said and I was almost kind of marginalized and rejected by the men for this, you know, open honest, authentic inquisitive explorative nature whereas they could you know. Man or the highlands would typically be a bit more reserved or stoic or you know not Vulnerable. So I've always had this present with me and just kind of went through life thinking. Oh, Maybe there's something wrong. Maybe I need to be more like the other guys maybe more like my pals like the lads.
07:57.92
David Millar
I've never been a lad in my life. But I've had glad friends I've been in that Circle I was a professional athlete for most of my life and I've been involved in you know or been in hypermasculine Environments I've worked with professional rugby teams I've been a sports development officer a coach educator like I've been in these spaces that. Require masculine energy and particularly within professional sports the hypercompetitive environment where there's no vulnerability because vulnerability is weakness in those spaces and you can't show any because you're trying to get the top of your game and peak Performance. So learning through that or feeling through that.
08:18.36
andyjnathan
Yeah.
08:34.74
David Millar
This part of me maybe wasn't welcome and I needed to suppress it showed its head when I became a dad and fell into a deep deep depression and was very very close to taking my own life and starting.
08:40.11
andyjnathan
5
08:52.72
David Millar
Reaching out and thinking what is it can I do here like before I make a decision I can't and make like what can I do if there's got to be something that can help me and I started reaching out and did things like breath work and that allowed me to get out of my head and into my body and it started moving things in me and I started to realize oh Wow. Maybe that part of me was okay, maybe that part of me was fine and I started going down other routes like I tried plant medicine I through the journey ended with brotherhood with men's work and that was the cherry on the top of the cake because I was like oh shit This is what it's about.
09:10.12
andyjnathan
7
09:18.74
andyjnathan
A.
09:27.66
David Millar
This is what we need. We need this form of connection because where I'm lacking another man shows up in abundance and he can give me his medicine his wealth his real wealth not just material wealth but his wealth of wisdom and support and presence with me for me to move through whatever it is. That's going on with me. So when I learned that I started holding space for other men and it was just you know as I was going through healing other men in my community were gravitating towards me saying like oh you were you know, checking out and now you're checking back in like what happened what did you do? So I would just allow this part of me to flourish this part that could hold space and ask difficult questions.
09:56.11
andyjnathan
And.
10:05.37
David Millar
And hold men accountable and kind of not let them away with the bullshit like not making excuses not complaining, not blaming other people but also just listening to the pain that they're in and holding space and allowing them to cry to scream to talk until they're. Have nothing else to say completely uninterrupted and all of those things were super cathartic and I was like oh my God That's powerful and I came away from those meetings. Those conversations feeling more lit up and more fulfilled than ever have in my life and that's when I knew Ah, there's something here.
10:36.78
andyjnathan
Okay.
10:43.13
David Millar
Have something that I can give to the world and I think the world needs it.
10:50.60
andyjnathan
It does and you do it so well and it's you know for me I was talking to a friend of mine before you know before we started recording this episode and this is someone that I've known she was someone that.
10:54.76
David Millar
It.
11:09.57
andyjnathan
Back in the days when you know as a huge O enthusiast before I became a teacher, we did like ah a pretraining training together. So we've known each other for probably 10 years and um and I was explaining that you know my personal focus this year is. To really step into who I am as a man you know to explore what my body can do to explore what my brain can do what I can do in my business. How I can be more of service to people in the world as a man and.
11:36.32
David Millar
Less.
11:47.24
andyjnathan
Up until up until this year there have been so many ways that I avoided really owning masculinity and owning the label of I am a man you know, even though I am you know.
11:58.30
David Millar
Smith.
12:05.13
andyjnathan
Not actually a physical body and I'm not my brain and I'm so much more but actually in terms of some kind of form of identification without being attached to anything this. You know this energy and just seeing what it's capable of how powerful it actually is as a force for good. And and then connecting with men who are doing this work like you and the you know the men's program the awakened man that I'm part of as well it is There is really nothing like it. It's in terms of in terms of what this does.
12:37.57
David Millar
Then.
12:42.37
andyjnathan
For me, you know as a coach I've coached men for many years but most of my clients have been women so to to connect with like you say this ancient technology it is wild. It's like you know, many many people say you know we're not using our brain to its full capacity but it's like I can feel parts of me lighting up.
13:01.71
David Millar
But.
13:01.92
andyjnathan
Um, coming alive that have been dormant maybe for lifetimes almost you know and it is I wonder if you know Jung had it riot it is this kind of collective collective. Ah you know, unconscious these these archetypes that have always been that come alive in us when.
13:06.42
David Millar
No man.
13:21.57
andyjnathan
When we're around the right people to like awaken that sparkiness. What do you? How does that sit with you because I know you've you kind of looked at that work as well.
13:31.64
David Millar
Yeah, definitely I think you know to kind of carry on the story of a little bit like when when I realized all of this when I when I stepped into that space. It kind of all happened around the same time that my dad developed cancer. Um, now might both my parents are.
13:49.22
David Millar
Together Happy Lovely at a great childhood they looked after me, we lived in the highlands in the middle of nowhere. So there were challenges as yeah, a teenager growing up that you know I speak about it within now like oh God it was so hard. But when my dad developed cancer. It really threw me because I didn't really know my dad.
14:08.91
David Millar
I don't really know my dad I know him a lot better now in this last year as he's been fighting cancer and he's now cancer free which is amazing. But in that year that we were battling through this it really and I was in a different job and it really threw me so much that I was like do you know what? I'm going to leave him a corporate job.
14:19.66
andyjnathan
Yeah.
14:25.73
David Millar
And step into my path and purpose because I was repeating a cycle he was working all the time when I was younger I didn't really see him that much. There wasn't a great connection until later in life and I thought she and doing the same thing I've got 3 kids 6 3 and 1 and I'm just away all the time they don't get any of me I'm just repeating the same thing and worse yet.
14:30.79
andyjnathan
Yeah.
14:44.96
David Millar
My dad dies and he doesn't know me and I don't know him what is the point what is the point so I decided to ] Jack the job I have loads of experience in coaching and coach education and tutoring a long career and.
15:01.75
David Millar
You know, holding space for people and helping people but let's realign it so I found a company called a few companies did loads of training so I did a company had training with a company called sacred Sons in America which is mens work facilitation based off the mancai project.
15:13.24
andyjnathan
Um, yeah.
15:17.69
David Millar
They're all manca project alumnis and it's very closely linked to that kind of delivery style and that for me was what I was talking about earlier that brotherhood that was the cherry on the top of the cake I was like oh my god I knew this was a thing I knew it and that was like the confirmation for me I was like oh yes, these people are. Doing what it was I thought was supposed to be in the world so that gave me I gave me the confirmation and the confidence to really step forward and you know go all into my my company mantra men's work and provide their service for more men I then trained with people like Connor Beatton Bank Groteski David key
15:39.81
andyjnathan
Hanna.
15:54.15
David Millar
Transformation of coaching program a mindful talent and the school of conscious touch to really get a broader spectrum of like how I could fully support every man through whatever he's going through whether it's sexuality relationships life business um confident shame shadow work.
16:02.73
andyjnathan
Yeah.
16:13.38
David Millar
Then these masculine archetypes which is what we kind of use through secret sounds and what I use in some of my events and it gives a framework for men to follow where most of us can identify.
16:18.78
andyjnathan
Yep.
16:27.50
David Millar
With the King the Warrior the lover, the Magician and where we sit within them and where the energies go whether it's into the light side of the of the King which is the creator of order or the dark side which is the tyrant or the weakling So like which and you know with all the other ones they have there. Like sides and their shadows and where do we sit in them and what can we start to move within us to move us more into the philist fullist expression of our being within each of those archetypes. So when we start to work with men in these ways and we're going deep like there's a lot of connection. There's a lot of Stillness. There's a lot of difficult questioning. There's a lot of reflection and there's a lot of embodiment practices. The embodiment is when we start to really focus on what's what's present with us because we can talk until the cows come home.
17:08.76
andyjnathan
Absolutely.
17:16.32
David Millar
Can talk about stuff in its grief but until we start moving it through our bodies and start thinking right? Where is this in me what does it feel like and then we start to embrace it and embody it and then we break through it if we need to.. That's when we create real change and that's when it's real catharsis and we start to see some big releases and people really come into deep realizations and moving through potential Traumas or Behavior Patterns or belief systems that don't serve them anymore and that's what I feel happens in our events and it's really really incredible.
17:46.15
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah, absolutely um I can echo that I mean part of part of what you're saying there is is is really interesting because you know this is journey with.
17:49.37
David Millar
5 3
17:59.91
andyjnathan
Sacred Sons I'm very familiar with kind of beaten I'm very familiar with some of the other guys less. So but um to to see that you know part of this was was as a result of you becoming a father and then part of it was a result of.
18:17.14
David Millar
And.
18:19.20
andyjnathan
Something happening with your father and that is like I was saying to my friend Beforehand She does a lot of work with women I mean she's specializing in work with women but this is this is the thing right? that if we're talking about these these roles and they're. They're not really gender specific but it's in terms of energy. It's like the masculine and the feminine energy which we have as polarities within us, but it's really important that we understand the role of healthy strong masculinity when we're when we're children you know, However, we identify as children right.
18:45.40
David Millar
The head.
18:57.66
andyjnathan
And it's important that there's that flow between them in a healthy way and like you say you know on the surface you had a great childhood right? I mean there were challenges because of location but actually what happens if you grow up and you don't know the people that your parents are.
19:13.57
David Millar
This is.
19:15.31
andyjnathan
You don't know you know what shaped them. You don't understand what their relationship to their parents was like what their relationship to money's like what their relationship to their body is like because you know we don't tend to have these deep conversations with our parents and um and so what shifted. In your relationship with your father as a result of this work that you that you've done. You know obviously all of this this study that you've done in order to provide the space for men. But as a result of that you have grown and developed as ah as a man fundamentally I would imagine right.
19:49.54
David Millar
Absolutely and it was really interesting because the ability. What what came was the ability to ask the questions and not just listening to the answer given but you know listen to what's not being said, you know listen to what's not being said read between the lines. And asked the deeper questions with my dad and you know you you named like pretty much everything that was the basis of my relationship with my parents I didn't know any of those things I didn't know the relationship relationship to their parents I knew that they were dealing with some trauma and they created like the most nuclear family of all time because you know sadly my mom.
20:17.56
andyjnathan
Um, yeah.
20:27.72
David Millar
Lost both of her parents before I was born I'm the youngest of 3 but by the time I was born she had lost both of her parents and that was hard for her and you know growing up you know I didn't realize why there's this disconnection between us. But then I started to realize as I got older and I learned more about this I was like oh my god that must have been so traumatizing.
20:28.97
andyjnathan
He.
20:34.48
andyjnathan
A.
20:46.61
David Millar
Have lost both of your parents and to be going it alone and I've spoken with her about this at great depth now. So the the fact that I'm able to have these conversations now and the trigger of my dad developing cancer and us having the urgency of time placed upon us I thought right? Okay, now's the time.
20:58.90
andyjnathan
And.
21:03.81
David Millar
Is a time to have these conversations because I'm not ending this with out knowing the answer to these questions and now I know the questions I want to ask and it's so funny because my mom like we laugh up better at now and if she listens to this. She'll laugh again, but throughout my entire childhood. My mom's safety mechanism was to.
21:09.41
andyjnathan
Um, yeah.
21:22.50
David Millar
Block conversations and she would say the word Anyway, if any conversation got to a point where she was uncomfortable. She you would just hear it anyway and that would ever like our the house was you know quite a matriarch and you know my mom was kind of like you know my dad was working all times when Mom ran the run the home. So if something was uncomfortable for mom.
21:37.63
andyjnathan
Um, yeah.
21:42.47
David Millar
That was it change the subject. Let's move move into something else was talk about something else. So we only got a taste of what my mom's experience of life was growing up because anything was uncomfortable. She would just see anyway and I caught her on it recently in the last year and I was like mom I had enough of you saying that now like so anytime you say anyway I'm gonna go.
21:51.34
andyjnathan
And.
22:01.81
andyjnathan
But but.
22:01.90
David Millar
Even harder even deeper and asked the most uncomfortable questions so you better stop saying it and we laugh at it now because like it's such a prevalent memory from a childhood that like that was like a block and me being the way I am.
22:13.28
andyjnathan
And.
22:15.79
David Millar
As I said earlier like I've always wanted to ask the deeper questions and I've always come up against this block with my mother thinking Oh want to know more but you don't want to go there please So as now as an adult I'm like we're going there Mom like I'm I'm all in to finding out all these questions. So it's been really beautiful for us to grow.
22:18.86
andyjnathan
Yeah.
22:25.26
andyjnathan
And I told.
22:32.87
David Millar
Um, and become closer than we ever have just in this last year
22:33.58
andyjnathan
Yeah I love that you like the woodpecker. Okay getting we're getting below the bark now Mom and you know it makes a lot of sense right? I don't want to psychoanalyze your mom on this um God Bless her but you know.
22:39.98
David Millar
Um, yes, yeah yeah.
22:53.17
andyjnathan
The the reason that that people change the subjects and don't go deep. You know it's because pain is avoidance of pain is something that the brain's designed to do right? Particularly if you know if you've been kind of raising 3 children and your husband's you know, busy working and you've lost your parents. It's like and yet. In the islands probably in the middle of nowhere or close the middle of nowhere. She probably didn't have much of a support network right? So Just a means of just putting that armor on and just carrying on right? Just best not feel it because you know who's here to help me pick up the pieces if I fall apart kind of thing or whatever that story is.
23:21.38
David Millar
Um, yeah.
23:29.87
andyjnathan
And um, but she's done an amazing job because you're an incredible man and um, no, you are as my experience and doing this work as well. You know you you were saying that at the beginning of that you know that conversation that.
23:31.20
David Millar
Um, so thank you.
23:47.36
andyjnathan
I was introducing you actually at the beginning of the conversation talking about how becoming a father was like a pivotal thing for you particularly when you got you know, really depressed. What was what was going on for you when that was when that was happening. You know what was leading to that was it. The.
23:54.13
David Millar
Like grace.
24:06.32
andyjnathan
You were struggling to cope with certain aspects of your role as a father or something else.
24:11.10
David Millar
A lot of things were happening in my life I was already in a pretty depressive state and and I was wrestling at the time with you know, something's going on in my relationship. Something's just going on with me but essentially it was the fear of being alone.
24:22.58
andyjnathan
Name a.
24:28.16
David Millar
Fear of being alone was the most prevalent thing in that time or the fear that people would leave me um and it created this overwhelming fragility that I just didn't believe that I would be able to survive on my own and I wasn't competent enough.
24:31.14
andyjnathan
Yeah.
24:46.88
David Millar
To be sovereign and be alone and or to be comfortable and provide for myself or provide for anyone. So when that was going on in my head and then I became a father I was like well.
24:50.80
andyjnathan
And.
24:59.44
David Millar
What the fuck do I do with this like how can I provide How can I look after how can I have a dependent if I'm feeling like this if I can't even feel like I can look after myself and I'm so scared that the person I love is going to leave me or everyone's going to leave me how can how can I give.
25:02.91
andyjnathan
And.
25:12.91
andyjnathan
And.
25:18.60
David Millar
Safety and support and how can I sacrifice for a child so it it really it piled up on top of me to like such an immense degree that it just it just pushed me into to near suicide and you know thankfully. That that didn't happen but it was it was It was such an overwhelming sense of it had such an overwhelming sense of importance and I felt so unimportant that I didn't feel like I could reach that at that time that was my belief now was now it's a.
25:46.68
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
25:52.81
andyjnathan
Yeah, and yeah.
25:56.71
David Millar
Complete opposite the polar opposite but I couldn't I couldn't at that point step up into leadership in my relationship in my family and over the you know subsequent five years six years my daughter 6 now and I spent the first two years really struggling the first year was pretty brutal I was a particularly bad dad. Will say like I'm a recovering shit dad and I spent the next five years making up for it and now me and my daughter are super close. We have a great relationship. My daughter is a lovely girl and I've got 2 younger sons that I'm fully devoted to I'm a stay at home dad at the moment. My wife is working full time and I've been. Full time dad in with 3 kids for the past five months and you know I'm so grateful that I get to be the dad I am today because I almost wasn't.
26:42.66
andyjnathan
And what have you learned about fatherhood on this journey obviously being you know, being a son and then being a father. What have you learned about what it is to be a father and what it is to not be a father. On your journey that you could share I'm sure there's a lot and we we may need to have many more conversations and I'm happy to do that but like high level high level summary. What? Ah what have you learned about what it is to be a father for you as a result of um.
27:03.35
David Millar
Yeah, for less That's a whole podcast just than its own. Yeah.
27:20.39
andyjnathan
Being a father and being a son.
27:23.00
David Millar
Being a father for me at its essence is service and sacrifice for the greater good of your family as fathers we are required to lead. Not be the leader of a family in a patriarchal sense of it or in any way we are not the leader but we are a leader we have to step up into leadership in our family and are doing that we have to serve to lead and lead to serve So We have to be there. You know, unrelenting to you know.
27:42.37
andyjnathan
Here.
28:00.35
David Millar
Do the dishes to clean to like change the nappies to to also work to support your wife like as men as like devote husbands and present fathers. That's what we have to do There is a level of sacrifice and service that we have to shoulder and that is the King energy that we spoke about in our.
28:08.37
andyjnathan
A.
28:18.81
David Millar
In our um and our time together at the men's council the King energy raises those around him up he is the creator of order and purpose and fertility within his kingdom and that is the proper father like that's the that's the Archetypal father somebody who looks after and holds the court holds Everything knows everything that's going on.
28:29.45
andyjnathan
A.
28:37.70
David Millar
Does What is required of him does what he needs to do without being asked to do it and make sure that everybody is nourished in the house and in the family in the kingdom so that to me is what a father needs to do a son is there to learn.
28:52.38
andyjnathan
Okay.
28:55.82
David Millar
So the the archetypal son is somebody who is absorbing knowledge from elders where there's father grandfather other elders in the community they are there to absorb wisdom and carve out their path and purpose using that wisdom.
29:11.25
andyjnathan
I Love that and in terms of learning how to be a father from being like a terrible father or whatever it was recovering appalling father or whatever you you said.
29:27.79
David Millar
Um, yeah, yeah.
29:30.78
andyjnathan
You know I guess it required this this initially this some energy to learn how to be a father but you know more broadly men where do men learn these skills because you know I could talk. Ah, spoken about my father a bit on the podcast before but you know the the reason that you know that we have a lot of challenges in society is because of the the lack of strong healthy masculine role models.
30:02.53
David Millar
Nothing.
30:04.51
andyjnathan
Ah, in every in every era of life whether it's in the corporate world. Whether it's in politics whether it's in the media whether it's in society whether it's in families. Um in law and order in every you know part of society and and if we're not. If we're not taught how to be that because either there's an absence of it or there is um ah like a proliferation of the shadow aspect of masculinity which you know is going to be.
30:38.40
andyjnathan
I don't know seeking power or being like super money oriented or like avoiding responsibility or avoiding accountability or blaming or being a victim. You know the kind of things that as men you know we do right? and.
30:54.95
David Millar
Go ahead.
30:56.91
andyjnathan
And to to rise up to like you say to kind of step into this king energy but also to be to be the father which is about sacrifice you know and know part of my journey. Um, and yeah, I'm a father to 2 cats. But I'm also living. With a woman who is you know she's a very powerful woman who has done a lot of work and she does not let me sleep on not being an accountable responsible man right? Let alone human being and partner when we when we don't have this in our upbringing when we don't have.
31:24.27
David Millar
Of you.
31:32.78
andyjnathan
You know this skill set. This is what's missing like you say it's this ancient technology and the sun is there to absorb from the elders to be taught this men. You know so many men do not have this skill set archetypically Unconsciously it's within them waiting to be awakened. But it needs to be awakened in the company in the presence of men who have done this work men who have already traversed this path. It's almost like a rite of passage right and initiation into into manhood and um.
32:05.39
David Millar
Um, and.
32:08.31
andyjnathan
I Know there are going to be men listening to this that are thinking Well I'm you know I'm a shit father. You know maybe I'll go out drinking or I don't support my partner or you know this idea of sacrifice can be really, you know, really challenging because if we're if we're kind of wearing the the mask of. Immaturity. It's like I don't want to give something up because this is my life now almost like the the wound of Hyperin Independence where no, no, no I've worked really hard for this I'm not going to Sacrifice. You know my time the boys or my time at the Pu but whatever it is. And so there's a whole other element here isn't it that we need to understand you know the the purpose The why behind it. But also how it taps into a part of us that can be really um, can be really Beautiful. So.
33:03.58
David Millar
And here.
33:06.52
andyjnathan
This is something I'm I'm guessing that you you work with men on there's a lot of fathers that you work with and so what is your experience of working with men outside of you know now that you kind of funneled into this skillset and you decided that this was going to be what you were doing.
33:14.37
David Millar
Yep.
33:25.61
andyjnathan
What the challenges you've seen in in men kind of whether it's in your 1 to one coaching work or you know in in the group stuff in terms of stepping into this king energy as fathers and partners and husbands what are the challenges that you've seen with men having in. Understanding the you know the sacrifice is part of it and it it. It. It doesn't have to be like a ah negative.
33:54.52
David Millar
That's the point. That's the whole point that you nailed it right? The end. It's not a negative.. That's what we do as Dads. It is about sacrifice and what I see there was so much in what you said there I was taking notes what I see a lot with with men. And I like I'll preface it with saying I was there I was one of them. That's why I know about this. That's why I coach men through this because I was doing exactly what I'm about to say at a very high level I was consistently not showing up the best I could for myself or my partner and then for my children and I.
34:13.21
andyjnathan
Yeah, the show.
34:28.31
andyjnathan
O.
34:30.92
David Millar
Went all in all in to turn that around and make sure that I was the best man lover father I could be and that's what I coached men in now. So wherever you're at in that paradigm demand the lover or the father. That's what I want to support men to be to show up at their best at each of those levels of the revolution. So for me. In terms of showing up as a father like I see a lot of men who are not embodying that Sacrifice. There's no selflessness. There is selfishness and it it is a form of selfishness and we we can I can say that and it's It's okay to call it out and it's okay.
34:56.90
andyjnathan
And yeah.
35:06.38
David Millar
To to label as such because when we are put in ourselves before the rest of our family now that's not to say that we don't look after ourselves we do but we don't put ourselves before our family we are there to serve to lead and lead to serve. We have to be. Sacrificial Earth and have a surrendered leadership where we are looking after everybody in our family and letting go of the the childish things and the you know the boy psychology and stepping into the mind psychology means that we have to let that child part of us die and we have to separate ourselves from the um. Ethereal or Archetypal mother so that comfort that comfort is all around us comfort Consumerism. You know the the distractions that we have so whether we're sitting on our phone a lot whether we consume a lot of junk food whether we play computer games whether we watch porn all of these things.
35:49.25
andyjnathan
And.
35:55.67
andyjnathan
On.
35:59.86
David Millar
Our distractions and they're unhealthy for us now if we're going to be optimal filers If if you want to be so like not everybody does Okay, but if you want to be the best father you can be then you need to commit to it and like if I ask any man who comes to to me for support like okay. What does being the best father look like for you or what is being the best man look like for you I guarantee. It's not eating shit food watching porn playing computer games and going out there weekend can get smash with their friends like that is not showing up at your best but we have we a lot of people do do that where consumer Consumers. We.
36:26.86
andyjnathan
In.
36:36.94
David Millar
Get distracted and there's a level of addiction with those behaviors. It's hard to put those bias or those the childish things down and step into the more mature macu where you can find other things. There are other things even just the service of your family like looking after your kids and taking real pride in.
36:40.27
andyjnathan
Um.
36:56.58
David Millar
You know watching them play without taking your phone out your pocket like helping them learn how to read or ride a bike without being distracted by anything else. That's a gift in itself. So if we can really lean into that as men and you know even as a partner like if you can. Be fully present with your partner and compassion and understand like all of their needs and wants and desires and be able to deliver them in a compassionate but you know, confident and masculine way not to. Be submissive. But if you're going into your relationship with presence and a sense of power in yourself then you're going to show up better in your relationship. So I think it's about this rightte of passage you were saying so. Thinking about like what do you want to be like who do you want to be and from there like you start with the end of mind like who do you want to be? do you want to be the best ad you Want to be the best lover. Do you want to be the best man and right here what skills like what are the identifiers. What do you need and then what skills do you need to achieve those and then you start working your way back. Okay, if that skills. You know, slightly complex and you need underlying behaviors and beliefs in order to achieve it. Let's go Back. Let's start with them. Okay, what? how do you feel about yourself. Let's start with your I am statements like where where are you within that skill set or that um Belief system.
38:27.49
David Millar
How can we rewire and reprogram yourself to get to the end vision. The highest vision of yourself and achieve all of these things along the way because if you're not there now and that's where you're most people who come to to a coach like they want to achieve something so you haven't achieved the yet. How do we achieve it and we just break it down.
38:40.86
andyjnathan
The shown.
38:46.32
David Millar
And I think it's all about in terms of like the father and the man as Well. It's about values so developing your value system and acting in integrity integrity. Such a powerful word that as men. It's so Layered. It's different for every man. It was different for me. But acting in integrity and keeping the promises you make to yourself is so vital and you do that with humility you do with decisive action you do with confidence and conviction. And that is how you embody like all of these archetypes like the King energy. The Warrior energy is the the keeper of boundaries the holder of boundaries. The Magician is the and the healer the seer the um the synthesizer of life. The lover is the connector of essence like all of these like how do you embody them. And do you do it with humility decisive action and it's just decisive action, confidence and conviction and for me like I see the father as the the peak now you can be like a very competent very mature very you know, great man. But for me. If You can do that and be a father if you can do that and be a partner and a father like that's the the top of the tree because if you can shoulder all the responsibility and the leadership it takes in the sacrificial and service that it takes to be a father and still show up as a great man and still show up as a.
40:10.17
andyjnathan
Who.
40:17.13
David Millar
Devoted husband or a partner or lover then that you're you're at the top in my book.
40:25.91
andyjnathan
And it's a climb right? You know you need to you need to um one needs to understand a terrain and have good guides to get to get there. There are things that 3 things that you said that I'd love to.
40:31.42
David Millar
Are ever.
40:43.87
andyjnathan
To dive deeper into clearly we're gonna need to have another conversation because this is this is you know brene brown famously does like part one part 2 part 3 I think we're gonna have many of these because this is I'm just grinning from ear to ear. Ah you know I can feel parts of me awakening just listening to talking. There are 3 things that I'd love to.
40:53.54
David Millar
Um, absolutely.
41:03.40
David Millar
Ah.
41:03.80
andyjnathan
I'd love to explore further with this so presence. Um this concept of being all in and values and this is this is stuff that that I deal within my work all of the time with my clients. Um, and also in my life in my work. Being bing and he trying to be someone who is um who has integrity you have congruence I Love what you were saying you know that you do what you you say? you're going to do but you also said something else about integrity. Um, where you you honor what you say you're going to do for yourself as well. As for other people. It's like you know you honor your own word. It's like taking having self boundaries with yourself to a whole other level where.
41:49.34
David Millar
Um, let us.
41:55.28
David Millar
9
41:56.84
andyjnathan
You hold yourself accountable I can't remember who said this but you know integrity is doing what you say you're going to do when? no one else is looking. Yeah.
42:06.33
David Millar
Totally yeah, it's discipline. It's all about discipline like right right? right now I I don't eat sugar. Um, and I've been off sugar for over six months now I'll refined sugar like I'll have some honey things but I don't need refined sugar is easter this weekend. Our house is and we've got 3 children.
42:14.72
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
42:22.76
David Millar
Our houses filled to the rafters of chocolate and it's it's tempting and I knew I nearly had a bit of chocolate tonight before I came on this podcast I opened the fridge. There was loads of broken up little eggs and I was like oh I could just have a bit but I was like no because I said I wasn't going to do it.
42:27.30
andyjnathan
Ah.
42:34.88
andyjnathan
Mean.
42:37.88
David Millar
And I know that sugar does not sit well with me. It doesn't react well with my body So don't do it and I just walked out I just actually grabbed a banana because I say I've really leaned into fruit now because it's like nature's candy. So ah, yeah, and for me, it's healthier.
42:40.29
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
42:47.53
andyjnathan
Um, yeah.
42:52.84
David Millar
And yeah, it's all about discipline keeping the promises you make to yourself and doing it when nobody's watching so important.
43:02.48
andyjnathan
Think we got the podcast episode tile there haven't we um this is I mean this is this is phenomena you know everyone listening please you know I'd love to hear your feedback on what you know what we're listening to David talking about here. Presence is something that that you talked about and so we're going to look at presence this idea of being all in and value. So definitely want to kind of dive into these things. Presence is something that I've learned through not being with Rachel and there is no fucking irony here that you know. I was ah you know a great spiritual teacher a meditation teacher and come the end of lockdown. Um, while still having and you know a committed spiritual practice. Um stuff shifted for me which is why I've really kind of fully gone into I've gone all in with coaching but this idea of. This idea of presence and not being distracted whereas you know because we we we get conditioned with this stuff that is just available right? It's short-term dopamine fix right? short-term short-termism. It's just pleasure. Comfort numbing which is all you know, fundamentally an avoidance of something might be an avoidance of silence or an avoidance of discomfort or embarrassment. Whatever it is and this is something that.
44:17.70
David Millar
Is it.
44:32.90
andyjnathan
Thankfully ra hasn't said to me in the last two weeks too much but you know there's been like a ah ah theme and this is something that you know when we talk about men's work. It is work. It's not something you don't climb to the top of the mountain and there you are you planted your flag and you don't have to do any more work this is stuff that you know. Life is about showing up and you know being with yourself and being with what's going on right and just the temptation to react or the temptation to pick up a phone when you know when you've had a disagreement or to look out the window rather than looking. Rachel's eyes all of these things I notice constantly or to sit down and be like let's watch Tv rather than have this kind of this this this moment of connection where maybe I feel uncomfortable and this is something that you know I'm not embarrassed to talk about because. To be present is one of the most powerful things that the masculine can bring to the feminine and you know and it's not ah again, it's not about gender. It's energy. You know, however, you identify you know the feminine can soften and and feel safe when the masculine is fully present and and that's also the feminine within us. You know the more emotional vulnerable parts of us can soften when we can be present with that and one of the things that that is very powerful about you know the work that you do that I've experienced David is that you teach men to shut the f up and just to witness and this is.
46:03.65
andyjnathan
Always what the feminine needs. The feminine doesn't need the man to fix and to problem solve particularly when there's chaos and there's emotional turbulence which can be a huge trigger for men who you know who Maybe. Experience that in childhood right? like you know the power and the chaos of ah of a woman who is upset who's emotional can be incredibly triggering for a man and so learning how to be present with that without then.
46:36.40
andyjnathan
Having to go into solve or fix because that is an avoidance that's like hey I don't have to deal with my feelings of discomfort if I can fix it then it goes away a bit like your mum kind of saying anyway like the man's version of that is to do that by default right.
46:41.15
David Millar
This is.
46:50.99
David Millar
Um, yeah, oh.
46:53.91
andyjnathan
And it's great because we can fix things. This is this is also it has a light side. But however, when it comes to being present. There's often a lot to be present with that. We don't want to be present with as men right? So what can you? What can you speak to about that.
47:11.97
David Millar
Um, yeah presence. Yeah, this there's a lot coming through so present presence is.
47:26.14
David Millar
There's something there's and I think Nancy Klein says that the quality of and 1 person's attention to terms quality of another person's thinking. So if if I'm fully fully present with you and this is this is also part of the circling practice.
47:32.94
andyjnathan
Oh.
47:43.42
David Millar
If I'm fully present with you and I am tuned in like I am watching the micro movements of your eyes the depth and cadence of your breath and speech the. Posture that you're holding how you're moving your head if I am tuned into all of that and then I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm also listening to what you're not saying I am fully present and then I can fully understand where you're coming from I think sometimes a lot of the relationship issues that we face now and that I'm I support men through is because they're only getting. 50% of the picture because they're not paying attention enough to get the full all the information they're not absorbing all the information they need to absorb because they're not present. They're looking at their phone. They're thinking about work. They're scared about what they want to say and how it will be perceived there. Either doing that or they're just waiting for it to silence so they can say what they want to say and they're not actually affily listening to their their partner or the person they're speaking to whoever but the quality of our attention determines. The quality of the other person's thinking. So if we want to really know our partners if we want to really have a fulfilling relationship. We have to be. Fully present and that is across every element of you know how somebody is communicating 55% of our communication is in the body languages. So It's the majority is in our body language and if we're not looking at our partner when we're communicating with them then how the hell are we going to know what they're saying.
49:12.78
David Millar
If it's the majorities in body language. We need to tune into what they're doing in their body and you said something about um, our partner's emotions as well. It's our job as devoted partners for me as a devoted husband to fully understand the.
49:19.51
andyjnathan
Oh.
49:31.40
David Millar
Roller coaster emotions that my wife can go through. My wife is a very levelheaded person but she can have you know periods and in in literally period It could happen in during your periods so you have to know the cycles as well. So you have to understand your partner's cycles being tuned into their menstrual cycle so that you are aware like.
49:39.69
andyjnathan
Yeah, hundred percent
49:49.33
David Millar
You know, knowing that it's normally about twenty eight days between and between periods and like kind of planning that into how you interact with your partner like a lot of man. Do you not even entertain or even have that in their psyche of like oh should I really even care about that. Of course you should care because if you're a devoted partner and husband and you want to get the.
50:02.91
andyjnathan
Are.
50:07.63
David Millar
Best out of your relationship then you serve to lead and lead to serve and you understand and you you take charge and taking in charge looks like knowing everything that's happening and if you know everything that's happening. You know your partners psycho you know how they're emotional. What the emotional curve is like throughout the month then you hold that space with full presence and you deliver you know whatever is you need to deliver through that knowing I don't know everyone's partner I'm just speaking for my own experience pretty much everything I'm saying is just my own experience so by holding that space like sometimes.
50:36.40
andyjnathan
And this I think.
50:45.34
David Millar
My wife will say things and I'm like oh I really disagree with that but hang on yeah, she's probably not fully thinking that through like she's really tired. She's is close to period or like something else, you know I'm I'm conscious and compassionate with where she's at.
51:00.57
andyjnathan
Um, yeah, there's some kind of trigger there. Yeah for sure.
51:03.60
David Millar
Yeah, so I'm I'm not judging her and on what she says in that moment I'm taking it in and I'm not insecure that I would be like hey how dare you say that to me like I can take it and be like oh okay, like a lot of the time as as men I've worked with a lot of men in this like we are we our moods are determined by our partners emotions. So.
51:21.87
andyjnathan
Um, and.
51:22.92
David Millar
And that's what we do as men and particularly father as we show up with our mood and our mood has to be buoyant joyful light and also a leader like we have to be able to um. Not abdicate that leadership and take decisive action. Be someone who can for plan and have a vision but also day to day be able to hold a space for the emotional fluctuations within a relationship and not take it personally my my favorite book ever is that the 4 agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz and
51:41.75
andyjnathan
And.
51:53.73
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
51:57.83
David Millar
A agreement number 2 is don't take it personally so for for me is so important like what what other people say is just their Opinion. You don't have to take it Verbatim. You don't have to listen to be like oh oh my God That's that's what That's what that is. That's the truth. It's not the truth. It's just their opinion of their experience that that truth is that their truth is just their opinion. Their experience. It's not the truth truth is like a universal thing. It has to be completely true for it to be True. So What people say and do day-to-day doesn't actually equate to the truth.
52:15.87
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
52:33.66
David Millar
It's just their experience of any certain situation or Circumstance. So for us, it's important for us to hold the emotions of our partner without taking it personally not abdicate the leadership take decisive action and have a vision in mind for our relationship. Our family ourselves and. You know our partners realize that and another thing about integrity as Well. You said earlier I think it's really important because our partners pick up on those things too like let's let's say you are trying to get fit or you like me with my chocolate earlier.
53:01.33
andyjnathan
Um.
53:10.90
David Millar
Like my wife knows I don't need chocolate and she's been trying to get me to eat that chocolate for days now and I won't do it but the set if I if I eat a bit of chocolate and she saw me she she might not say it but she's thinking. Ah he did it. He broke. He's not a man. He's not a man of his word. So our word means everything as as men and as partners we have to be able to hold.
53:20.90
andyjnathan
Yeah.
53:26.46
andyjnathan
Yeah.
53:29.73
David Millar
Same as like in parenting you you set and hold a boundary consistently daily but compassionately and firmly you have to do the same in relationships you can't bend and break and weave all all over the place you have to hold a boundary sometimes and it's really important to be a man of integrity to stick to stick knot. Arrogantly if you're wrong admit it quickly and emphatically as Dale Carnegie says but if you're right, you're right? and you can hold that boundary nicely.
53:59.81
andyjnathan
Yeah, and this is this is part of you know part of this work for you know for men listening thinking what hang on a minute I'm not there. How do I do that. The whole point is you hire a coach or you go to you know one of David events. Where you you connect to a community of men where you can speak of this. You can be witnessed because part of the journey is we have to we have to learn these skills. We have to relearn what it is to be the best version of ourselves we have to have guides. We have to have we have to have.
54:26.54
David Millar
Um.
54:32.90
David Millar
Prisoner.
54:38.10
andyjnathan
Someone holding a mirror up to us so we can see which is often really challenging and uncomfortable and confronting work. But this is this is this is actually how we do it so that if you're listening to this listening to David and thinking how.
54:43.90
David Millar
Here.
54:53.79
andyjnathan
You know you hire a coach like David or me and you will learn this because it is ah you know we're kind of in the trenches with the people that we work with right because we're only here because our lives have led us here. It's it's our ah dharma our path because of the work that.
55:05.51
David Millar
Ah, man.
55:12.68
andyjnathan
We've had to do to heal ourselves. You know to to recover from suicidal ideation and all kinds of different kind of things that we've experienced as men and this stuff is really common to presence that was so beautiful moving into this idea of being all in.
55:15.50
David Millar
Ah.
55:20.75
David Millar
Are yeah.
55:29.60
andyjnathan
And this is something that we talk about um in a men's group a lot and we had um we had Dr Robert augustus masters giving um a session for us who's this this incredible psychotherapist and and he was doing some some individual therapy. It. It just incredible the way that he was just kind of getting down into it like 1 of our group sessions and um and one of the guys was was kind of talking about this this idea of you know I'm I'm all in at the beginning and then ah and this is this is something that that. So many people experienced this idea of light is like the beginner's kind of enthusiasm and then soon as the going gets tough. You know we kind of bail something comes up and this is you know this speaks to habit creation.
56:11.48
David Millar
Has.
56:20.16
andyjnathan
All of these kind of you know the different kind of psychologies behind this. But in terms of being all in one of the things that he said was really interested was if there's if there's a part of you however, deeply buried in your unconscious that. Isn't fully and because there's a fear of Abandonment. There's a fear of being Alone. There's a fear of rejection. There's a fear of Failure. There's a fear of fucking art. There's a fear of humiliation. Whatever it is if there's a part of you however, deeply Hidden or deeply buried that can't be all in because of that. Doesn't matter how all in you are at the beginning you're going to be divided and you know it's going to be like you know like a rubber band. It will only stretch so far and then it will ping back and so being all in actually you know I'd love to hear your definition. But for me being all in is.
56:53.82
David Millar
Fine.
57:10.23
andyjnathan
Regardless of the challenge I am gonna I'm gonna keep going and not like a fricking bulldozer. You know I'm gonna be present with myself with what comes up and I'm Goingnna get support because I may need that to stay all in but I'm gonna be all in because I know that. On the other side of that pain the other side of that resistance is the man I want to be you know is that is that resilience that I doubted that I would have like you know like you're talking about with the chocolate like you know this stuff isn't laughable. You know in discipline.
57:33.75
David Millar
And.
57:43.97
David Millar
Um.
57:47.32
andyjnathan
And Discipline is a powerful word. You know accountability responsibility These are powerful words because there is such a shadow aspect to them that we often embody in our daily lives where we're Ill disciplinelind or you know particularly new if we're. You know when we were children when we went to school. Maybe if we served in the armed forces or in you know the corporate World. You know, even in Judo clubs or when we're kids you know discipline could have. We could have an attachment or identification with that or responsibility or accountability.
58:08.19
David Millar
I.
58:19.46
andyjnathan
That could have been really really uncomfortable, painful and so to then step into being a disciplined man. You know taking responsibility being responsible being accountable, not not being a victim not being a martyr you know, being the owner of your life. Every. Decision you make every action every thought is your responsibility to get to that level can be really scary because you know what happens if I you know if I can't do that you know well like you were saying you know world of people that I love leave me. There's so much of this stuff in the cooking pot under the surface right. So to be all in means that we have to be present with all of that and still take the next step and it is always the next step. And so with the work that you do particularly you know you've got another men's council. This is what I went to an editorburg there's a men's council coming up in April in Dundee and David's got um like a phenomenal weekend which is literally like the ultimate in you know in embodied transformation for men. Over 3 days that's happening in may isn't it I think it's weekend of the fourteenth at may and we can talk about these dates in a second but this idea of being all in if you've if you've been like a halfin kind of person whether you're listening to this as a man or a woman or however you identify.
59:31.82
David Millar
Yeah, on.
59:46.93
andyjnathan
You know the reason that you haven't got the results that you want or you're not as far down the line as you want to be or you know you've done a lot of work but you're not where you feel you should be is because on some level you haven't been all in and this is like the masculine energy of. Continuance isn't it a purpose of having this y this north this North star. Um, what would you like to what would you like to say about that.
01:00:14.65
David Millar
Yeah I mean I'm I'm aware I I'm gonna acknowledge that went on a bit of a tangent last time and my good friend March on brown will laugh at me because he is the king of tangents but I'll try and keep this one succinct because I was really in je yeah I was loving the last one. So I'm gonna I'm gonna try and stay on check with this one.
01:00:26.28
andyjnathan
I Love tangents. Ah.
01:00:32.72
David Millar
Yeah for for me being all in is about integrating every part of yourself. Um, so I like to go a bit deeper in terms of you know what part of yourself isn't all in and identifying what that part is because that are essentially our parts of our shadow parts of our shadow psyche that is holding us back.
01:00:39.65
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:48.73
David Millar
Are rooted in Beliefs or root in fear which are all written in Insecurity. So What part of yourself is stopping you from showing up in the areas of your life that you want to show up or going all in then it's ah you know, addressing those parts like how how do we. Go a bit deeper and I start to speak about those shadows and where did they come from and what is the underlying belief of that shadow is that true is it the truth and can we make a conscious choice to change that belief because everything you know all the way through that track of you know, trying to try to work towards your goals and I always like to think. I work from my goals not to my goals. So I Embod I Embody the feeling of what it's like to have already achieved my goal and I work back from there so I look down and be like hey cool. Yeah, your work you come on on and I work from my goals not from down here looking up to my goals. So if I want to be there if I want to be there.
01:01:23.32
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:35.55
andyjnathan
Yes, powerful.
01:01:41.29
David Millar
Every single thing I do is a choice up to that point including integrating my shadows and I had a conversation with somebody recently about how you know they lock parts of their shadow in their mind in little doors and there was like little rooms in their in their mind that this shadow was there the shadow was there. And I said to them was like that needs to be an open plan House. You need to get rid of the walls get rid of the doors get rid of the locks and every part of you because within each of those shadows is a lesson and I know that because I've wrestled with my own shadows and I still do like I still get imposter syndrome there and then and I still get fear of failure like like it's there.
01:02:08.86
andyjnathan
And.
01:02:17.90
David Millar
But I have the coping mechanisms now to override those underlying beliefs and step into more of a creatorhood and an empowered position and realize that those shadows don't define me. They're just part of me So when I start to integrate those shadows and realize ah he's trying to teach me a lesson. Maybe I just need to be careful here. It's not that I'm I'm scared of failing Iss that there's It's almost like a radar. Oh. There's something to be careful of and that will achieve me to the situation I'm in and that allows me to change that hard wiring that kind of old you know, stored memory long-term memory. And it's Easy. It's easy to change hardwired long-term Memory. You just need to be consistent. You said there word consistency there and I think for us as men particularly we are forged through Challenge. We are forged through testing ourselves and passing daily. We require testing as men.
01:03:10.53
andyjnathan
Yep, yes.
01:03:15.87
David Millar
And we need to show up Philly go all in for each test and pass it to move to the next test and that for me is done with no excuses. It's you know, not waiting for the perfect conditions to to be present in order for you to to step into challenge. It's just.
01:03:32.78
andyjnathan
Um, sophisticated.
01:03:33.23
David Millar
Stepping in and making sure that you can show up regardless and that's with ownership acceptance and accountability and that to me is how I go all in.
01:03:46.60
David Millar
With 0 tangents are.
01:03:48.10
andyjnathan
I'm not going to say not going to say love it because that's what I That's what I say all of the time value system. Okay, the last thing value system. This is really this is fundamental creating. You know how.
01:03:55.23
David Millar
Or.
01:04:05.48
andyjnathan
1 creates 1 ne's own value system requires a process of separation of individuation from everything that we have been taught before so we become we take like the best the best of everything from our past and then we see how we can apply it.
01:04:17.62
David Millar
That.
01:04:24.17
andyjnathan
That what works and what doesn't work and the stuff that doesn't work for us in our present and for our future That's where we have to go into this act of of creation of separating from maybe some of the values of our family. Not all of them but some of them. Maybe we have to be a different kind of man to the man that.
01:04:27.86
David Millar
He.
01:04:43.60
andyjnathan
You know for me and my family For example, you know my dad was God blessing he was in and out of work. A lot. He never did what he really wanted to do he died with his song in Him. He was really artistic and he never really pursued that when he was working He was never really physically or emotionally Present. Um. And there was just a lot of resentment. You know between him and mum and so there was a lot of wounding there of what the masculine was so for me I've had to step out of the value system of this is what a man is to create what a man is for me now and I've needed help. You know of other men to show me what other qualities. Um, um, a man is but also you know there are there are qualities that my father had that were Beautiful. You know his sense of humor his ability to diffuse tension and not just in a way of avoiding pain but his his way of helping people see the light side. You know Gala's humor can be very helpful in dark times sometimes because it helps people connect to a different kind of energy within them and it bonds people together. So this idea of you know a value system is is very interesting to me because there's a paradox say you know there's. There's this process of separation and individuation which which is necessary to be your own person. But there's also the stuff that you know ancestrally that we that we need to take with us as Well. That is valuable from the past and so how does how does that fit in with.
01:06:18.22
andyjnathan
With what you were talking about in terms of um, you know masculinity and ah values.
01:06:29.16
David Millar
Yeah I think it's important for us to learn from the people before us. And like I said earlier like forge our own path and purpose because we can't be carbon Copies. We can't cookie cut and copy paste what happened before us it doesn't work but at the same time we have to be able to take the good and learn from the bad and that's you know, Essentially what what you know work work.
01:06:50.87
andyjnathan
Yeah.
01:07:03.44
David Millar
A lot of you know, generational. Um I don't want to say trauma but you know things that have been passed down from generation to generation like it is its conditioning. Yeah we we have to we have to be able to understand the world that they lived in understand what.
01:07:10.72
andyjnathan
Yes, conditioning isn't It's programming. Yeah.
01:07:23.28
David Millar
Um, what what they were dealing with within their environment and what circumstances they were. They were presented with and then we can identify. Okay, how would we maybe show up in that situation. What would we do in that situation and then we align our values with okay that was actually pretty good What they did there.
01:07:25.81
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
01:07:41.25
David Millar
But once we start to go a little bit deeper not just look at the surface level of how people behaved but understand what the context was and how like would you have acted any different if it was you and then from there we take the good and we learn from the bad and we develop we develop our own value system. I think in terms in terms of values I think it's a really powerful exercise I've I've got like a really good one that I ascend to clients that identifies their top values and you know, kind of refines it down to a set of 4 top values. The 4 kind of main ones for me for men particularly.
01:08:04.76
andyjnathan
Um, here.
01:08:14.82
andyjnathan
Um, yeah.
01:08:20.49
David Millar
And it's not set essentially values. But it's categories. So across vitality integrity selfleadership and emotional connection like those are the 3 sorry those are the 4 kind of top values for men that once we start to get an equilibrium across all four of those then we can really start to.
01:08:20.74
andyjnathan
Yeah.
01:08:39.51
David Millar
Refine and define our own value system because those are like the kind of base the base level ones like if you are and showing up as you are like trying to evolve within vitality integrity self leadership and emotional connection. Then you have a better understanding of yourself and you can step forward and start to develop your own your own value system and then from there you can you know? step forward into like more masculine leadership then you can step forward into partnership then you can step forward into parenting or you can if it's the Business. You can step forward Into. Um.
01:09:10.30
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
01:09:17.60
David Millar
Leading a company being a Ceo being in a position of leadership if if those 4 are of whack then it's very hard to do that because there's a lack of understanding of your your own being. So I think it's you taking what we've learned taking what was given to us taking the good learning from the bad. My my 4 base level ones. And then develop your own value system for there and how you want to show up in the in the world and again it's looking with the end of mind so starting with the end of mind looking at who you want to be and working way back like if that person is in that position like what do you want and that's actually one of the the funest things about when you ask people like what do you want like some people don't know when that's fine, but.
01:09:41.90
andyjnathan
Um, yeah.
01:09:54.56
David Millar
Like going through that practice and process of finding out what you want there's there's a really famous book called first know what you want like before you even set out doing anything like you should know what you want from this situation so start to figure that out first and then like what does that person if you sit and meditate and.
01:09:55.38
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
01:10:11.00
David Millar
Visualize and try and manifest what that person looks like what values do they have okay there we go. How do we build those value systems into our life right now.
01:10:20.96
andyjnathan
Yeah I love that this is and this is this is phenomenal. Um, that's very similar to to the work that I do in terms of creating from the future rather than from the past because who is this person. Ah, 2 years time 5 years time 10 years time who are they? what are they doing. You know what are they being what values do they have you know what habits do they no longer give it to you know where do they have this discipline. What does that look like.
01:10:47.50
David Millar
Who the.
01:10:53.92
andyjnathan
You know when they wake up what is it that they do. What are the you know what are their first actions upon waking you know how do they speak to their partner. How do they? How do they contain themselves when they can feel that there's going to be a reaction What do they do instead you know this kind of. This kind of creating from the future is I agree for me, it's it is the most potent way of creating transformation with somebody because it's like you're you're stepping outside of this. Um this reality where we're you know, comprised in the present moment and we're allowing. Ourselves to connect down the line into the future with you know with ah with ourselves still then and we're able to connect to like maybe a higher purpose a higher part of ourselves who's able to guide us and say ah we don't do that anymore. We don't do that here in 2 years time. We definitely don't do that. We don't have that habit. So.
01:11:45.60
David Millar
As.
01:11:50.56
andyjnathan
If you get rid of that now. It's gonna be really good because otherwise you're gonna still have to get rid of it before you get here and you're gonna save a lot of time and a lot of pain So ditch that one get up a bit earlier and you know it's gonna be a pain in the eyes. But that's okay, you'll start to realize that over time it will change.
01:11:58.69
David Millar
Z.
01:12:06.94
David Millar
Yeah, and that's what you know all about manifestation I mean no one who's listening who has heard about or is into manifestation is all about embodying the frequency and exactly what you are envisioning for the future is trying to align yourself with that right now. So like how does that person feel speak.
01:12:08.93
andyjnathan
And you know.
01:12:26.12
David Millar
Act walks they dress think like how do how are they who are they and what elements of that. Can you start bringing into your life right now because it does make a difference The second you start embodying some of those things vibrationally and energetically. You start to change and again, that's a conscious choice.
01:12:45.49
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah, Jodie Spencer talks about this a lot. Um, ah I love ah love a lot of his work because it is about the energetics of connecting to he calls it the quantum field but it is it is how to literally shift who we are and to so.
01:12:55.22
David Millar
Um, is in.
01:13:02.37
andyjnathan
To consciously pull ourselves out of what we believe we are so that we can see that we're so much more than we perceive. We conceive of and actually this is really interesting I have a program which I'm about to re-release called becoming you which.
01:13:10.60
David Millar
This is.
01:13:19.30
andyjnathan
Deals with if it deals with values. But also this kind of process of of manifestation so that my friends will be online very soon. But before we go and this is definitely very definitely not going to be the last time I have baby on the podcast David why don't you just tell.
01:13:27.63
David Millar
Citizens.
01:13:38.30
andyjnathan
Ah, people particularly the men what you've got coming up like immediately in April in may and then also later in the year because there's some. There's some stuff that you do not want to miss many even if it means you traveling well it does mean you traveling to Scotland um, you know it is. Essential essential work I think so what's going on for for mantra holistic at the moment. Why don't you just tell us what you got coming up.
01:14:01.10
David Millar
Absolutely yeah, so we have in April on the twenty First we've got our men circle. So this is just an evening event. It's in Glasgow so it's mainly for people who are local to Glasgow but if you feel like traveling across then absolutely everyone is welcome. It's gonna be just a 3 hour event in the evening on a Friday night purposely and to give men another option then just go into the pub and moving into the weekend with a clear head rather than a hangover. So. We're doing that the twenty first of April and then on the twenty third we have our men's council in Dundee this is the the fourth in a series of you know, coming down into the central belt and and delivering these one day events which are transformational events. It's a full day 10 to 5 10 am to five p m and it's a refined version of our full weekend event. We form a sense of connection and collaboration amongst men and we allow each other to fully witness and express and explore ourselves and be able to. Navigate those things those limiting beliefs are those harder conversations that we haven't been able to have we navigate them through that day and we do lots of embodiment practices where we bring them out of our heads into our bodies and start to move through them in a more physical way and there's also a beautiful breathwork session.
01:15:32.00
David Millar
Delivered at the start of our men's council days by Rory Lamentt of caye which is you know holotropic breathworks a transformational form of breathwork that can invoke a lot of emotional releases and it kind of breaks down the psychological barriers that we have in place and then we go into our men's council day and that's why it's such a powerful day because. You know we're already primed and ready and then the emotional content that comes through after that is is really nourishing so that's the refined version of our full weekend event our full weekend event is on the twelfth to the fourteenth of may that's the mantra men's retreat. That's gonna be up at Cayam in Highland pressure and that is a full full weekend. Ah, transformational experience every single man who's come to this retreat has said it's been life changing for them. It's three days of deep work where men really go into all of the things we've been speaking about here like who they want to be how they are showing up now how they want to show up. They've not been showing up and we you know we do things like cold therapy we do and 2 holotropic breathwork sessions led by Reese from oxygen you can find him on on my Instagram. Also do sound healing. We do meditation. We do a lot of confrontation and connection. So we do sacred combat we do um, a lot of the connecting exercises and we do all of this through the the same 4 archetypes so we do the king the warrior the love or the magician and throughout the whole weekend but it's a real deep dive.
01:17:05.62
David Millar
One day we can get pretty pretty close and we can you know have a lot of good work. But the the weekend retreat is where the real works done a lot of men leave that retreat or every single man they came the last time left that retreat different than when they arrived. So it's m. It's it's a powerful weekend.
01:17:27.19
andyjnathan
And the you know the difference from my perspective and although I haven't done one of David's retreats yet. It's definitely gonna happen my experience the difference between a day and ah and a weekend and listen you can only make the day go to the day because they're absolutely phenomenal. But you get.
01:17:40.20
David Millar
Is a.
01:17:44.42
andyjnathan
You know I call this I call it like water cooler moments but you don't get to go home because you're there together the whole time so you are you are bonded from the time you arrive to the time you leave even though the the practice is and the time of the the work may.
01:17:51.20
David Millar
Um, yeah.
01:18:03.34
andyjnathan
You know, set times the rest of the time you are, you're still processing. You're still talking. You're still connecting and and that is that's undeniably game changing being in that environment being with that energy because so so much can shift.
01:18:08.71
David Millar
Who.
01:18:15.80
David Millar
Yeah.
01:18:22.31
andyjnathan
When you are in a space that is held just constantly literally even while you sleep that energy is still present. Um, so I would I would recommend men.
01:18:28.15
David Millar
It is. Yeah I think that that's that's an interesting point as Well. I think it's because it oftentimes a lot that pretty much everything that I do in my event is a bit uncomfortable like cal pitaly honest is is it pushes a lot of men to their edges and you know right outside their comfort zone but outside the comfort zone is the learning zone. And then outside the learning zone is our potential and we like to take men to the edge of their potential and for them the responsibility then is to walk past that and get the get the wisdom that's on the other side I can't push them I can't take them I can only lead them to that Point. It's up to them to step over and if they don't want to.. It's absolutely Fine. Nothing is compulsory at my events if you want to go past and you know go to the other side and bring back the learning. That's awesome I'm there for that too. But if you just want to clerkrk with the edge and just get a little bit of learning and see what it's like I'm there for that too but being immersed in the experience for the full weekend. Is like nothing else because sometimes we are wrestling with our truths sometimes that we've never told anyone because in that in those events there is the permission you get their permission to say anything anything that comes out for you.
01:19:32.41
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
01:19:44.60
David Millar
Is We are there for it. There's there's no shame. There's no judgment. There's no guilt. We are there to support every single man to get the outcome they want if they want to come and shed something that is what all of you is welcome and I think sometimes when there's that level of discomfort Once you've shared something or.
01:20:03.25
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
01:20:03.80
David Millar
You've been confronted with something That's the other element of these weekends we will Confront people if we smell Bullshit we'll call it out because we can make excuses and we can mask things we can wear masks. We can lie about stuff. We can tell all these untruths and.
01:20:13.00
andyjnathan
Are.
01:20:18.90
David Millar
Ah, think it's really important when we step into these spaces. The level of authenticity and accountability that we hold can call people out and it's not nice. It doesn't feel nice. We are nice about it. But it doesn't feel nice in that moment and I've had men who came to came to my retreats who had the.
01:20:25.50
andyjnathan
Um, yeah.
01:20:36.31
David Millar
Biggest shift in their lives from being called out something that was incredibly uncomfortable in the moment and they were asked to you know to speak about it. I'm not I'm not being nasty to anyone but I'm asking them to say more tell us more about that and then I ask a great I may ask a question. What? why? do you think that is or. Lead them down a path of their own self-discovery in a group of men who is pretty impossible when you're standing in front of 24 men and you're asked. You're asked a very open question and a very authentic question is very hard to act because we're not train actors. We can't lie in that situation.
01:20:59.89
andyjnathan
And.
01:21:08.58
andyjnathan
Are.
01:21:11.69
David Millar
Especially if I'm like a quiver hound I'm looking I'm watching you like I'm circling and I'm looking at the the movements of your eyes like are you looking down to the floor you look at like I can pick up on that stuff. So I'm like okay um I I got the sense that that wasn't fully authentic. Is there anything else there for you and when.
01:21:19.15
andyjnathan
And.
01:21:29.34
David Millar
Start to move through all this stuff men are really you know, bringing their their full selves and when they do that. There's a lot of healing that happens because so often in our lives as men. We keep so much of ourselves back for fear of failure for fear of judgment for fear of fear of rejection from men and from women.
01:21:36.43
andyjnathan
Yeah, yeah.
01:21:44.14
andyjnathan
A a.
01:21:48.89
David Millar
So we hold so much for ourselves back and you know wrap up in Bravado and wear a mask to perform in business and work and life and love. But when you get to take all that shit off and just be real for a moment. It's really cathartic.
01:22:01.33
andyjnathan
Um, yeah, absolutely and you know in terms of um in terms of healing you know, healing can certainly my experience personally. But with you know with the work that I do which is. You know there's a lot of similarities particularly there's a lot of embodiment that I do with breathwork and other kinds of energy and trauma mealing practices that I use this this idea of when the when the facade drops and the facade is one of the one of The. Kind of the barriers. It's like fight flight freeze facade or people please you know whatever you want to call it that masking is that protective mechanism when that finally drops then you are fully seen fully witnessed and when that happens in an environment where there is. Only love and strong powerful Healthy Love where you cannot be rejected by your mother or your father you cannot be rejected by your teacher or whoever it just does not happen when you are witnessed with that mask finally drops.
01:23:01.10
David Millar
And.
01:23:14.55
andyjnathan
That is when the healing takes place and that is when you know the subconscious program no longer has anything to hold onto and that's that in that environment. That's what's so powerful about this work particularly when it's on retreat in that environment. That's when the reprogramming is really. Potent because the soil is ready. The seeds are germinating and it is It is the time for change in that moment and then the harvest is so like the harvest is it does not take long after that because.
01:23:38.27
David Millar
Ah.
01:23:40.89
David Millar
Yeah.
01:23:48.84
andyjnathan
Ah, you're not the same person because that mask isn't there anymore and you're not comfortable picking it up again because you know you've seen what it's done and you've seen how it's protected you believe you've also seen how it's held you back and you know denied you this. You know the self-leaship your emotional connection. The integrity, the vitality that you want to experience you've experienced when you get home everyone around you feels that change. They notice it your partner your children your colleagues your clients like everyone will be like what. Dude what is going on and and that that is and not only are they picking up on that but you have this band of Brothers this community that are literally there A what's that message away. They're literally there like in your hand supporting you.
01:24:24.36
David Millar
Um, yeah, as.
01:24:38.65
David Millar
Um.
01:24:40.95
andyjnathan
So that's what this work does and that's why we do this and that's why particularly you know these events that David has coming up for men whether you're in Scotland or whether you're in england it doesn't really matter. You know you need to get your ask to this stuff because it is when you know when I use the term transformational it can. It can seem like kind of you know. Marketing jingo but actually it's about really your life changing beyond your wildest imaginings. You know your heart opening more you know being open to experiencing more love more brotherhood more connection more joy more peace.
01:25:06.83
David Millar
This is.
01:25:19.79
andyjnathan
Then you've ever imagined possible and also you know stepping through things that you never imagined. You could get past all of that is available and that's what transformation is so yeah, we can't I mean that's.
01:25:20.20
David Millar
Um, that is.
01:25:29.84
David Millar
We can't do alone. We can't do it alone. We've we've tried it doesn't work.
01:25:37.10
andyjnathan
Yeah, and that's the whole point know whether you whether you call it like the lone wolf which is you know what men do they? Lone wolf they try and do it on their own but you know I also see this is why so many people don't go down the therapeutic route because they're like i. I can listen to Bob calls and read the books you know I've got a great brain or very logical I can kind of fix this myself. It's like well if that was the case and you know there wouldn't need to be any therapists or coaches. You know we wouldn't have a job they wouldn't need to be teachers we could figure everything out you know, but hey you know there are universities and there are therapists that are coaches because.
01:26:01.67
David Millar
Is it.
01:26:10.30
andyjnathan
We need to learn. We can't learn this stuff on our own. So David um, it's been an absolute privilege and I'm so so excited to have had this conversation and for people to to marinate in this. You know it's a big one and it's.
01:26:12.21
David Millar
This is.
01:26:29.76
andyjnathan
You know the first of the first of many. But thank you for your time. Thank you for the work that you do thank you for the journey that you've been on and I've said this to you in person already. But you know your life story and the life story of your family is what's got you here and there's been a lot of struggle a lot of challenge a lot of pain right.
01:26:47.62
David Millar
With any.
01:26:49.70
andyjnathan
And I just want to honor that and say that I see that and I see that as you say you know we are forged in struggle we're forged in challenge. This is this is it. You know to be to be the man that you really want to be for all of the men listening. This is your path it is through this. It's through the fire and on the other side is you know you have you may have scars to look at and wounds to pick over but you have the wisdom you have the experience and with that is you know is how you become the you know the partner the father the man, whatever it is that you want to be That's how you become the man that you've always wanted to be that's that's the brute. So we're here for it. David here for it. I'm here for it. David thank you so much for being with us. Um, if you need to find David Online of course why wouldn't you David has a podcast called.
01:27:29.94
David Millar
15
01:27:45.79
David Millar
Forging fathers.
01:27:45.87
andyjnathan
For Jim Fathers available on all of your favorite streaming sites and your Instagram is.
01:27:53.39
David Millar
David Ross Miller or mantra men's work.
01:27:56.79
andyjnathan
And the website for people to find out about the events is fantastic. David thank you so much for joining us and can't wait to torture you again soon.
01:28:01.35
David Millar
Um, yeah, it's mantra mensoric.com
01:28:10.61
David Millar
Um, yes, looking forward to thank you Andy.